We're back! After seeing Superman a few times in theaters, Gail and Nate have a bunch of thoughts.

Here are some timestamps to help you through the episode if you don't want to listen straight through.

• 00:00:00 - Intro
• 00:41:57 - Our feelings on the new Superman movie
• 00:45:10 - Spoilers start here
• 01:18:02 - Deconstruction themes in Superman

Oh, and here's that picture of Nate that Gail wants you all to see.

Merry Christmas, Exvies!

Do you ever feel out of place at your deeply religious family's holiday celebrations? We know the feeling. For this special holiday edition of the podcast, we're joined by our friends Jessica Goforth and Zach Malm to talk about how Christmas has evolved over the course of our shifts away from Christianity and share some of our coping strategies when the religious traditions take over the festivities.

• Jessica's Naughty Holiday Playlist (Spotify)
• Jessica's Naughty Holiday Playlist (Apple)
• Zach's Original Music
• Zach's Holiday Playlist

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Check out the Leaving the Village podcast at dauntless.fm/leavingthevillage

Check out the Veterans of Culture Wars podcast at pod.link/1537732624

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Follow us on Bluesky at @fullmutuality.com, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content!

The biggest Broadway musical adaptation has hit the big screen, and for some reason Evangelicals have some thoughts on it. Our dear friend Jessica Goforth from the Leaving the Village podcast sat down with us to chat about the new movie, Wicked: Part 1.

We spend a chunk of the episode talking about musical theatre in general, along with some other Wicked-adjacent topics, so if you want to jump straight into our conversation about Wicked itself, skip straight to 37:40.

Nate recently wrote an essay with even more thoughts on some of the political themes in Wicked as well as how some of the characters resonate with the Exvangelical experience. You can give it a read here: natenakao.wordpress.com/2024/12/03/wicked-through-and-through

Also, as mentioned in the episode, here are a few little performances Jessica and Nate did of a couple songs from Wicked:

• Jessica singing "Popular" on Smule: facebook.com/jess.j.goforth/videos/553732644075224
• Nate singing "As Long as You're Mine" recorded with YouTuber Maisie Waller: youtu.be/QPnrF6KI3n0
• Nate performing "As Long as You're Mine" live at a cabaret night in Montclair, NJ, with Allison Gormley: youtu.be/F_PLkHMGDCo

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Check out Jessica's podcast at dauntless.fm/leavingthevillage.

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YouTube chapters:

- 00:00:00 - Intro

- 00:04:47 - Musical theatre talk

- 00:37:40 - Wicked and the Evangelical reaction

- 01:53:22 - Our own reaction to Wicked: Part 1

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Follow us on Bluesky at @fullmutuality.com, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content!

A few members of the Dauntless Media Collective team—Gail from Full Mutuality, Jessica from Leaving the Village, Maggie from Hello Deconstructionists, Nate from Full Mutuality, and Scott from Chapel Probation and Horny Chapel—shared their raw, unedited, and unfiltered reactions to the 2024 election results.

If you're looking for Exvangelical community online, please feel free to join the Dauntless Media Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server.

Content Warning 2025 is taking place in Atlanta February 15-16. Sign up to attend at contentwarningevent.com and use the code DAUNTLESS10 at checkout for $10 off your admission. We'd love to see you there.

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Follow us on Bluesky at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Maggie Harrigan, host of the podcast Hello Deconstructionists and creator behind the Instagram account of the same name joins Nate and Gail for a fun conversation about healing from religious trauma, deconstruction, and the power of storytelling in building community after leaving evangelicalism.

TRIGGER WARNING: there are a ton of references to contemporary Christian music of the 2000's and early 2010's.

• Subscribe to Maggie's podcast at dauntless.fm/hellodeconstructionists.
• Follow Maggie's Instagram at instagram.com/hello_deconstructionists.

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content!

To wrap up AAPI History Month, friend of the show Scott Okamoto joins Gail and Nate to share about his family's history during the years that Japanese Americans were incarcerated in concentration camps in the western part of the US and Canada. Also, as one of the hosts of the podcast Asians in Baseball, Scott needed to be tested on his knowledge of Asians in other sports, so listen all the way through for a little trivia on Japanese athletes in hockey and English soccer!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Asian Representation in American Media | Visibility in Hollywood: https://youtu.be/VCLk6VlD_Tk
• The History of Asian Representation in Film: https://youtu.be/k5KwDTXWgSA
• More about Asian America on Full Mutuality: https://fullmutuality.com/asian-america
• Nate's video essay on FX's Shōgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSmSWUk8qZA
• Nate on Scott's podcast: https://dauntless.fm/podcast/chapelprobation/episode/s2e4-nate-nakao-the-demerit-king-of-bob-jones-u-bju

Buy Scott's book:

• Bookshop.org
• Amazon
• Kobo

Scott's other media:

• Substack entry on Oppenheimer
• The Chapel Probation podcast: dauntless.fm/chapelprobation
• The Asians in Baseball podcast: podcastpotluck.com/asiansinbaseball

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Professor of Law Kimberly Mutcherson joins Gail and Nate to discuss the history of abortion access in the US, the current landscape of women's healthcare, and the need for reproductive justice in the pro-choice conversation.

Professor Mutcherson was the former co-host of the Anthem-Award-winning podcast—The Power of Attorney—which is produced by Rutgers Law School. Follow Professor Mutcherson on Bluesky: @professormutch.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Randall Balmer - "The Religious Right and the Abortion Myth," Politico 10 May 2022
• Reproductive Justice by Loretta Ross and Rickie Solinger
• Killing the Black Body by Dorothy Roberts
• Center for Reproductive Rights

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Happy Valentine's Day! On today's episode, Gail and Nate talk about what happens when you love everyone and everything else more than God. Oh, and be sure to check out the Content Warning event taking place in Portland this weekend! Tickets are available at contentwarningevent.com.

If you're looking for support for religious trauma survivors, check out the Reclamation Collective at reclamationcollective.com.

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the third part of our miniseries, "My Cult Was in a Documentary," Eric Skwarczynski joins the show to talk about his work investigating the Independent Fundamental Baptists and about the Max/Investigation Discovery docuseries Let Us Prey: A Ministry of Scandals.

Eric's Links:

• Instagram | @preacherboysdoc
• Preacher Boys podcast | website
• Film School'd podcast | Apple Podcasts

Let Us Prey:

• Watch on Investigation Discovery
• Watch on Max

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dr. Camille Lewis joins Gail and Nate to share her story of growing up in the IFB, her life at Bob Jones University, the controversies that forced her to leave, and her ongoing work analyzing and reporting on BJU and the larger world of fundamentalism.

• Read Dr. Lewis' story of leaving BJU here.
• Follow Dr. Lewis' ongoing reporting and analysis of BJU and fundamentalism here.

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our good friend Jessica Goforth joins us to talk about her reactions to the Amazon Prime series Shiny Happy People, which exposes some of the abuses in the Christian cult known as IBLP or ATI.

Jessica is the host of the podcast Leaving the Village, where she shares her own story of surviving IBLP and interviews others who have also escaped the cult she grew up in. You can subscribe to her podcast at dauntless.fm/leavingthevillage.

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nate and Gail return for an update on life. We discuss weddings (especially the problems with evangelical ones), current events, Palestine and Israel (briefly), meeting people you've made friends with online, building new community after leaving toxic spaces, how to not fall into previous traps that people often take out of evangelicalism into their deconstruction, binary thinking, and what TV shows and some podcasts we have been listening to. A little bit of everything.

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rabbi Ariann Weitzman spends some time addressing a few of the common misconceptions Christians have about Jews and educating us about the relationship between the two religions. This insightful conversation is among our favorite episodes, and we hope you find it as helpful and informative as we did!

• Bnai Keshet Reconstructionist Synagogue
• Four Common Misunderstandings about Judaism

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode we are joined by Christopher Peterman, a former student at Bob Jones University who organized the first ever student-run protest at BJU. Chris shares his own story of abuse at BJU and the severe trauma that motivated him to stand up to the administration at the self-proclaimed "Fortress of Faith."

Further Reading:

• "Bob Jones University Blamed Victims of Sexual Assaults, Not Abusers, Report Says," The New York Times
• "Rape victims say Bob Jones University told them to repent," Al Jazeera America
• The GRACE Report on Bob Jones University

The Tina Anderson Story on 20/20:

• Part 1: "Scarred Childhood Rape"
• Part 2: "Secret Pregnancy, Forced Confession?"
• Part 3: "Church Sanctioned Abuse"
• Part 4: "Leaving the Church"
• Part 5: "Help by Way of Facebook"

Christopher:

• Article quote | "How the 'fortress of fundamentalism' handles sexual assault," Al Jazeera America
• News interview | "Bob Jones U. student denied diploma, alleges retaliation for activism," CNN
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Twitter

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gail and Nate discuss a bit about the history of Bob Jones University, its influence on the Evangelical world at large, and the odd extremism it's known for. Rick Pidcock joins in to provide some updates on the university and share some thoughts about the possible future of the institution.

Sources:

• Bob Jones University v. United States
• "The Real Origins of the Religious Right," Politico
• "Billy Graham had a rocky relationship with Bob Jones University and its past presidents," Greenville Online
• "Bob Jones Univ. apologizes for racist policies," NBC News
• "Bob Jones University president resigns in battle with board chairman," Baptist News Global
• "Old wounds and power hierarchies are in fashion at Bob Jones University," Baptist News Global

Podcasts about BJU:

• Full Mutuality | Season 1, Episode 16: BJU & Me: Queer Voices from the World's Most Christian University — with Lance Weldy & Peter Crane
• Chapel Probation | Season 2, Episode 4: The Demerit King of Bob Jones U (BJU)
• Surviving Bob Jones University | Subscribe here

Rick Pidcock:

• Website | rickpidcock.com
• Articles | Baptist News Global
• Music | Provoke Wonder

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nothing upsets manly men quite like stepping beyond the gender norms, and stay-at-home dads are a great way to get them all riled up. In this episode, we chat with our friends Rick and Scott, who share some insights into their lives as stay-at-home dads and what it says about their masculinity. Spoiler alert: it says nothing, except that maybe they're not all that insecure in it.

Scott Okamoto:

• Website | rscottokamoto.com
• Podcast | Chapel Probation
• Book | Asian American Apostate

Rick Pidcock:

• Website | rickpidcock.com
• Articles | Baptist News Global
• Music | Provoke Wonder

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Follow us on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Janice Lagata returns! Janice and Nate were both members of Hillsong NYC until they left in 2017, and since then their former church has been the subject of numerous exposés and documentaries. The latest, The Secrets of Hillsong by FX and Vanity Fair dives into their disgraced former pastor, Carl Lentz. Though Janice isn't exactly thrilled with how the series handled the subject matter...

Links:

Janice: "The Secrets of Hillsong: An Open Letter to the Director"

Nate: "The People that Matter"

Janice's Podcasts:

• God Has Not Given
• Bad Words

Janice's Books:

• NEW! Grift of God: C.A.S.H. LIBS: Evangelical Launch Edition
• A Seriously Hilarious, Surprisingly Heartfelt, Completely Unauthorized Musical Parody: Act One
• the divide: Spoken Word Unspokens on Racial Rifts

Follow Janice:

• Instagram
• Website

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Scott Okamoto is back!!! And this time, he's bringing a book with him. The author of the newly released Asian American Apostate joins Gail and Nate to talk about his own journey that led to this book, his career as a professor at an Evangelical university, and how sorry he feels for English grammar perfectionists.

Asian American Apostate:

• Bookshop.org
• Amazon
• Kobo

Scott on the internet:

• Website: rscottokamoto.com
• Podcast: chapelprobation.dauntless.fm
• Instagram: @rsokamoto
• Twitter: @rsokamoto

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On our Season 1 finale, Gail and Nate sit down with Angie Kay Hong, writer, worship leader, critical convener, and one of the co-founders of Kinship Commons. Angie discusses the different ways purity culture further targets women of color uniquely to how it targets White women. She also commiserates with Nate on their shared love for the comfort foods of their respective cultures.

Follow Angie:

• Instagram | @angiekayhong
• Substack | Angie's Messages

Some of Angie's Writing:

• Angie's article in The Atlantic | "The Flaw at the Center of Purity Culture"
• Angie's review of Minari in Reckon News | "The choice between art and violence in the stories of the South: Minari was an opportunity for Asians in the South to tell their stories. The Atlanta shootings changed that."

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's episode, Scott Okamoto from the Chapel Probation podcast co-hosts with Nate for a special Asian-American-themed episode. Nate and Scott are joined by Naomi Ko and May Lee-Yang, two of the co-founders of the Funny Asian Woman Kollective (FAWK). Naomi and May share about their work in comedy, their experiences as Asian-American women, and participate in a roundtable conversation with Nate and Scott about their shared and distinct experiences as Asian Americans.

Funny Asian Woman Kollective:

• Website | fawkollective.com
• Instagram | @fawkollective

May:

• Website | lazyhmongwoman.com
• Twitter | @mayleeyang

Naomi:

• Website | konaomi.com
• Instagram | @konaomie

Nate's appearance on the Asians in Baseball podcast: Asians In Baseball: Episode 19: From the DS to the CS

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Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.

Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.