Why spiritual curiosity is rising while the church declines
In this episode of Faith & Clarity, Dr. Mark Turman welcomes Mark Matlock, founder of WisdomWorks and senior fellow at Barna, to discuss the cultural opportunity created by widespread spiritual curiosity amid church decline. Mark explains how Christian identification differs from practicing faith, why beliefs are more complex than they appear, and how Barna research identified large groups of spiritually curious Americans alongside curious skeptics, naturalists and materialists, practicing Christians, and a low-curiosity group. Together, they explore pre-Christian versus post-Christian mindsets, the impact of COVID on church disengagement, and how curiosity involves stretching and embracing ambiguity while church culture often seeks quick closure.
Mark urges Christians to keep conversations open, engage as one step in a longer journey, ask "spiritual discovery" questions, and share the lived experience of trusting, leaning into, and obeying Jesus. The conversation closes with a look at why a better, more compelling theology of heaven strengthens Christian witness.
Topics
- (0:00) Introduction
- (0:40) Meet Mark Matlock
- (2:39) Christian identity vs attendance
- (5:40) Researching spiritual curiosity
- (7:11) Pre Christian vs post Christian
- (13:25) Curiosity as virtue or vice
- (14:37) Measuring curiosity and openness
- (19:33) Four curiosity profiles
- (25:07) COVID and the rise of nones
- (28:01) Pioneers vs settlers in church
- (35:54) Curiosity builds connection
- (40:03) Defining oneness with Jesus
- (42:37) Leaning into trust
- (49:22) Discovery questions that open doors
- (53:01) Safe conversations in public
- (55:35) Why heaven must inspire
- (1:00:18) Conclusion
Resources
- Faith for the Curious: How an Era of Spiritual Openness Shapes the Way We Live and Help Others Follow Jesus
- The Wisdom Hacker website
- The Wisdom Hacker Instagram
- WisdomWorks
- Barna Group
- Ask Us Anything: info@denisonforum.org
- Sign-up for a Denison Forum newsletter: DenisonForum.org/subscribe
About Mark Matlock
Mark Matlock is the Executive Director of Urbana for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and a Senior Fellow at Barna. Mark's research provides insights into younger generations, cultivating resilient disciples, and knowing the pulse of your city. As the founder of WisdomWorks, he has helped national and international faith-based organizations adapt to changing times by turning data and research into strategic action. Mark coauthored Faith for Exiles with David Kinnaman and, most recently, authored Faith for the Curious: How an Era of Spiritual Openness Shapes the Way We Live and Help Others Follow Jesus.
About Dr. Mark Turman
Dr. Mark Turman serves as the Executive Director of Denison Forum, where he leads with a passion for equipping believers to navigate today’s complex culture with biblical truth. He is best known as the host of the Faith & Clarity podcast and the lead pastor of the Possum Kingdom Lake Chapel, the in-person congregation of Denison Ministries.
Dr. Turman is the coauthor of Sacred Sexuality: Reclaiming God’s Design and Who Am I? What the Bible Says About Identity and Why it Matters. He earned his undergraduate degree from Howard Payne University in Brownwood, Texas, and received his Master of Divinity degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth. He later completed his Doctor of Ministry degree at George W. Truett Theological Seminary at Baylor University in Waco.
Before joining Denison Forum, Mark served as a pastor for thirty-five years, including twenty-five years as the founding pastor of Crosspoint Church in McKinney, Texas. Mark and his high school sweetheart, Judi, married in 1986. They are proud parents of two adult children and grandparents to three grandchildren.
About Denison Forum
Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of our day from a biblical perspective, helping believers discern today’s news and culture through the lens of faith. Led by Dr. Jim Denison and a team of contributing writers, we offer trusted insight through The Daily Article, a daily email newsletter and podcast, along with articles, podcasts, interviews, books, and other resources. Together, these form a growing ecosystem of Christ-centered content that equips readers to respond to current events not with fear or partisanship, but with clarity, conviction, and hope. To learn more visit DenisonForum.org.
All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose. For more information, you can visit soundofarose.com.
