John Mulaney
This week on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast we're joined by the delightful Victoria Franco to discuss the bona fidas of writer John Mulaney.
Transcrlpt:
[0:41] Oh my goodness gracious me, oh my, it is my privilege to be joining you once
again this week in the SNL Hall of Fame.
The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a
deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest,
or writer, and add them to the ballot for your consideration.
Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener,
to vote for the the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined
for perpetuity in the hall.
And that's how we play the game.
It's just that easy. But before we get to voting, we need to discuss our nominee.
And before we discuss our nominee, we need to speak with our friend Matt Ardill
in his minutiae minute corner.
What do you say we wander over there and see what old Matty is up to?
Track 3
[1:39] Hey, JD, how are you doing? I am parched, and I just had an enjoyable sip of
water, which has cleaned up the old pipes.
Yeah, nature soda, I've heard it called. Nature soda, I like it.
Yeah. I heard somebody say they won't drink water because fish have sex in it.
I i think that's a fair you know i i can
understand that but um you know run it through enough
purifiers it should be fine i mean i'm a
i'm a water fiend i drink like four liters a day oh it's yeah it's good for
the body that's right that's why i'm so uh uh easy on the eyes yeah you are
you are ripped are ripped right speaking of ripped this week we've got john,
Yeah, back again.
Um, so I did make the effort of finding new trivia, so it should be a long time
listener listeners. It should be interesting.
Track 3
[2:45] Um, uh, height six foot, uh, one of the taller, uh, uh, contestants for, or nominees actually.
Yeah. Yeah. Born August 26th, 1982. Yeah.
He has 28 writing credits, 42 actor credits, 13 producer credits.
I have to say, when I saw him in The Bear, it blew me away. It was really intense.
Did not expect that. So he's got a lot of good acting chops.
He's released five stand-up specials and his Sack Lunch Bunch Kids special.
Grew up in Chicago, child of a law professor, mother Ellen, and attorney father
Charles Charles Chip W. Mulaney.
Never mess with a chip. Anybody who's got Chip as a nickname, that's trouble.
Track 3
[3:35] But he's descended from a lot of political go-getters.
He's descended from the mayor of Salem and has congressmen on both sides of his family.
Track 3
[3:49] So, yeah, he's got a good pedigree.
His maternal grandmother, Carolyn Stanton, and Seth Meyers' mother,
Hillary Meyers, performed together at a hospital benefit show called Pills a
Poppin'. That's some foreshadowing.
And it was directed by Tommy Toon when they were 19 years old.
So there is some deep family connections going on there.
Yeah. So he attended Georgetown University, and as most people know,
with Nick. role where he studied English literature.
He decided he wanted to go to show into show business at the age of five after
watching a lifestyle program, uh, about Ricky Ricardo, uh, which is the most
John Mulaney thing I have ever read.
Um, like if anybody's going to set their life goals by watching Ricky Ricardo,
that would be John Mulaney.
Yeah. From that point, he started doing sketches for friends and family whenever given a chance and,
And he was pushed, actually, by his high school teacher to pursue his love of comedy.
He actually almost had the role, well, he almost auditioned for the role of
Kevin McAllister in Home Alone, but his parents wouldn't let him.
Track 3
[5:07] That is wild. Yeah, that would have been a very interesting and different Home Alone movie.
Track 3
[5:14] I can only imagine what 10-year-old John Mulaney would have brought to the game.
Um so instead he just
started hanging around the museum of broadcasting communications until he
got to go to university uh that when he
joined an improv group uh which is where
he met kroll and mike berbiglia uh who
took him on tour uh during his uh days
and that's how he lost his stage fright he's had his own show
with mulaney uh his own show mulaney he
also appeared as himself on jim gaffigan's sitcom where
he portrayed his jim gaffigan's
nemesis as himself and he's
taken roles in chip and dale spider-man cartoons of
spider-ham which you know perfect casting no notes.
Track 3
[5:59] His first late night gig was writing for conan
uh but he's also taken
on writing roles for seth myers uh
as and has also written for the academy awards and the
emmys he has had a couple couple of brushes with
broadway first uh bringing a special kid gorgeous
to radio city music hall and then bringing
oh hello the sketch from the cruel show to
being a broadway show where they just had
random famous people showing up he's also released an album the top part which
is just him telling anecdotes which i need to listen to now yeah i don't know
about that but it's just like him telling anecdotes and stories sign me up yeah
but uh his esoteric sense of humor has has led him to many projects.
Track 3
[6:44] Including contributing to Seth Meyers parody show documentary now.
Track 3
[6:48] And he is in fact a super fan of law and order.
Welcome to my.
Track 4
[7:16] Of flour All right, JD and Matt, thank you so much. Yes, we are here.
Another episode of the SNL Hall of Fame. I'm so excited about this one.
This is an interesting one. We're talking about somebody who's already been
on the ballot since season one, but in a different capacity.
We're kind of reorganizing our thoughts when it comes to this person.
We're reframing his Hall of Fame candidacy and his role on SNL.
So I'm talking about John Mulaney, who's been on the ballot as a host in previous times.
We decided, let's talk about him as a writer, because that was his starting point on SNL.
So we're talking John Mulaney as a writer today on the SNL Hall of Fame,
and joining me to do that, a previous guest.
You may have heard her on the Amy Poehler episode that we did.
You may have heard her on one of the end of season roundtables where she did
such a great job expressing her opinions that we always love to hear about.
And you've probably heard her on the SNN, our buddies over at the Saturday Night Network.
I'm talking about Victoria Fronzo is joining me today to chat about John Mulaney.
Track 4
[8:39] Victoria, how's it going? Doing well. I'm very excited to talk about the one
and only John Mulaney. I feel like we have similarities in, you know, being.
Track 4
[8:50] From chicago and the comedy scene i can
see that and you're one of my few guests there's a
handful of guests but you're one of my few guests who i've actually kind of
been able to hang out with in person so a
lot of us in the snl community know each other just by doing podcasts and online
but we've actually got to hang out in chicago so that was that was wonderful
and you're a very funny person so i can kind of see those similarities as well
yes i i took i took thomas to the best It's the best empanada place in Chicago. It's so good.
Yeah. It's delicious. We had empanadas. I got an horchata. I walked around Chicago.
It was a good time. Yes.
I'm going to plug Cafe Tola. Always support a Latina-owned business in Chicago.
So Cafe Tola is one of the best empanada places in the city of Chicago.
Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. Great recommendation.
Track 4
[9:41] So you're living in Chicago right now. You're living the sketch comedy dream.
Dream? Like, what have you been up to over the last few months or so?
Oh, man. So I am, I, you know, moved back to Chicago last year from Detroit.
I'm back at the Second City.
I finished the conservatory slash grad review program, which was really awesome.
And now I'm getting ready for my own SNL showcase because I am an SNL scholar
at the Second City, which just
means that Saturday Night Live pays for my classes and training there.
And at the end of it, we get to put together whether a showcase that is SNL-like
and that it's sketches and solo pieces.
And yeah, that's open to the public. So if you're around, feel free to come.
I'm also just doing some writing and performing on the side too.
Track 4
[10:28] Yeah, if you're in Chicago, that sounds like an awesome deal.
Go support Victoria and go support these SNL scholars and what they're doing
over there at Second City in Chicago.
It's such a cool thing. If I live closer, I would have already attended.
I think I missed it by a week as well when I was up there last.
Yeah, you should just, I don't know.
Track 4
[10:48] Rearrange your whole life and come back to Chicago. No excuse is she saying? Yes.
We have, I mean, the SNL scholars are four of us.
One of them quite literally flew across the world to be here from Austria.
So it's a nice blend of folks that we've got in the cast.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited to hear how it goes.
And, again, if anybody's in the area, please go check it out.
Go check out Victoria there at Second City.
Somebody who probably is an influence to a lot of Second City folks,
I'm sure you included, is our topic today, John Mulaney.
He's a stand-up by trade. He auditioned to be a cast member for SNL.
He auditioned at the same time as Nick Kroll, Donald Glover,
Ellie Kemper, Bobby Moynihan, who obviously ended up getting it.
Mulaney did not get the cast member job, but he ended up being offered a writing
job, which he immediately accepted.
So he was a writer from 2009 to 2012.
So going from auditioning to be a cast member to getting a writing job,
that's not a bad deal, Victoria.
I would certainly take that. I don't know about you. I would.
I would take a janitor job at SNL, to be honest with you.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if they offered me the janitor job, if they offered me whatever
page, I always wanted to be, I should have started young and tried to be a page.
I know. Even then, though, it's so hard.
Track 4
[12:16] It's easier if you're in New York City and had connections to NBC to be a page.
Yeah, and I think NBC and SNL made the right choice.
Mulaney probably would have been a pretty decent cast member.
Remember, he would have added his own flair, but we got the chance to really
enjoy his writing stuff and his work as a writer.
So I want to talk about his stand-up, Victoria. Are you a fan of Mulaney's stand-up?
I am. So to be completely honest.
It's going to shock some people here. I didn't really know about John Mulaney up until 2019.
I had no idea who he was, and I've always been an SNL fan.
I never went deep, though, into learning who the writers were or whatnot.
But a friend of mine told me, you know, there's this guy.
He just released a special on Netflix. He's so up your alley.
And I go, what's his name? She goes, you don't know who that is?
It's an SNL writer, John Mulaney. And I go, I have no idea who that is.
Track 4
[13:22] And watched his stand-up. And I don't want to say fell in love because that's inappropriate.
But I did come to love his comedy very much.
I'm a little bit in love with Mulaney and his comedy. So you could say fell
in love. I think that's somewhat appropriate.
I just don't, you know, he's got a partner. He does. I don't want to be disrespectful.
He's a dad now. It's a little murky.
Yeah, he's a full papa now.
Yeah, so you fell in love with the stand-up material. What was it about the
material that really grabbed you?
I loved that he was weird.
Or not weird, but he could find the weird in everyday things and make it funny.
And not only that, you know, not to say he's a clean comedian by chance, but he...
He's smart about his comedy, if that makes sense.
He's smart and strategic versus, you know, going blue, as we say in comedy,
to lean in as a crutch, which was really refreshing.
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[14:27] I think his stand-ups changed a little bit, and that's totally fair.
And as it should, like as you grow and change, so should your content.
I didn't expect it to stay the same, but even now with baby Jay,
after everything that's happened the last couple of years, it's still really funny to me.
And I love that he's kind of poked fun at his likability. And I think that's what it is.
He's likable even in this new chapter of his life.
Track 4
[14:53] I think he has this specific relatability, if that makes sense.
That's what I point about. He focuses on hyper-specific things,
I think, his specific observations, but he makes them relatable,
whether it's, I know that concept
that he's talking about, or I've also observed that specific thing.
I think Mulaney's always been so good at that. I think it does show up in his sketch work as well.
You brought up a really good point, too, with Working Blue and his choice.
I mean, he's not a clean comic. I mean, he does curse, but it's for effect.
If he curses it's for a reason he's not
just using the f word as some sort of verbal pause
like a lot of comedians do it's uh
mulaney's very strategic about it and he's he's
very strategic about his comedy in general victoria that's what i love about
a lot of his stand-up is i feel like one of my really funny friends is talking
to me and telling me a story so he makes it conversational but you can tell
and appreciate the craft that went into it at the same time It's a really neat,
delicate balance that Mulaney strikes, I think.
Track 4
[16:03] You know, male comics, not all, of course, I'm not going to generalize them,
but some of them, and quite a few of them, tend to play the D-bag role in their stand-up, right?
And that can be funny at times, and I'm not opposed to it. I'll watch any type of comedy.
I'll never say no, unless they're incredibly problematic or outwardly horrible.
But that's what differentiated him. him he wasn't playing a bro he wasn't you
know womanizing he wasn't you know he didn't he never really punches down in
his comedy which is something i think is admirable too in a takeaway,
yeah he punches a lot of times he punches at himself he like punches inward and especially.
Track 4
[16:51] Laterally yeah he punches laterally like a t-rex like you i think you should
have seen victoria on on camera she was punching and it looked like she was
like a t-rex arms punching laterally that's what and that's how i punch in real
life so don't mess oh no don't ever fight please,
begging you um yeah no
you're right and he's very he's self-deprecating but not in an annoying kind
of way it's like a lot of comedians are self-deprecating like all right it kind
of comes off as fake like you're making fun of yourself but do you really believe
it i think mulaney i believe it especially with baby j you mentioned baby j
his most recent special when he was talking Talking about his intervention,
I think that was so great.
It was self-deprecating, but it was like honest.
And he was almost making fun of other people, but it would go back to him.
And it was, I think Baby J was a, we've seen it throughout his comedy.
Kid Gorgeous is one of my favorite stand-up specials of all time. Yes.
That's from like 2018, around the time maybe that you get. That was the first one I watched.
Yeah, okay. Maybe, yeah, Kid Gorgeous was the special. and I think that's one
of my favorite all-time stand-up specials by anybody and you could just see
his voice in that just it shines through and I think you could see.
Track 4
[18:10] On SNL, that comedic voice of Mulaney's show up on his work on SNL.
I mean, would you say that that's correct? He has a stamp on his sketches. That's Mulaney. Yeah.
Yeah, I was going to say in preparation for this, I've come to realize a lot
of my favorite stuff on SNL written by Mulaney.
Yeah. Or stuff that I'm laughing out loud. I'm like, oh, that's really funny.
That's tied to Mulaney. but I do want to go back to his stand-up.
I just want to shout out a joke he did.
It's the McDonald's joke. I think it's from The Comeback Kid.
He and his family are on a road trip, and they see the golden arches,
and they start chanting, McDonald's, McDonald's, McDonald's.
And my dad pulled into the drive-thru, and we started cheering.
And then he ordered one black coffee for himself.
Track 4
[19:08] And kept driving.
And you know, as mad as that made me as a little kid, in retrospect,
that is the funniest thing I have ever seen in my entire life.
How perfect is that?
He had a vanload of little kids, and he got black coffee, the one thing from
McDonald's no child could enjoy.
Yeah, and now in my family, my parents watch that
with me every time we see a mcdonald's even though we
don't necessarily go to eat from mcdonald's anymore we chant mcdonald's so yeah
it's something like that no that's perfect but something like that that's so
specific that that you know happened to him or whatever but it's so relatable
at the same time like you just you understand that family dynamic,
that he's talking about uh there was something from kid gorgeous uh one of my
favorite bits is when he was comparing Trump to a horse loose in a hospital.
This guy being the president, it's like there's a horse loose in a hospital.
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[20:16] It's like there's a horse loose in a hospital.
I think eventually everything's going to be okay, but I have no idea what's going to happen next.
And neither do any of you, and
neither do your parents, because there's a horse loose in the hospital.
It's never happened before.
No one knows what the horse is going to do next. Least of all the horse,
he's never been in a hospital before.
He's as confused as you are. That's a fantastic imagery, perfect metaphor, perfect beats.
Like, I think that's one of the better bits of any comedian I've seen,
like, in the last 10 years.
And that's the perfect way to describe him.
Because last week, I watched Kid Gorgeous again. And I was just like,
yeah, no, that holds true. Yeah.
Track 4
[21:07] Yeah, no, it's a perfect, yeah, it's a perfect way to describe that president.
Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And it's so Mulaney, too.
It's such a Mulaney way to describe his presidency as well. That's what I love.
Like, some of my favorite comedians, he's just, like, hyper-specific voice.
We did another writer, Julio Torres, recently on the SNL Hall of Fame,
and he's another one where it's just like I would watch a sketch,
and that's Julio Torres' voice. I watched something from Mulaney,
and that's Mulaney's perspective and his voice.
So I think that's just a mark of a really great writer is nothing generic.
It's your stamp on it. And I'm glad I have you on here today.
I want to take advantage of like your training and your knowledge and everything
just for sketch writing in general.
Victoria, like as a viewer of sketch comedy and somebody who takes part in sketch
comedy, who works in it. What are some things you look for in good sketch writing?
Oh, man.
Track 4
[22:09] Obviously, it's subjective and everyone's everyone's different.
I love what I love callbacks to something.
So if you're watching a full show, this only mostly pertains to stage or theater
comedy versus, you know, an SNL type show.
But when they do something in the like in an earlier sketch and then they call
it back, it's called a runner.
You know there are all these ties i really love that because that's it's
a smart way to put the show together and create somewhat of
a theme in terms of sketch i
just love when there's a character with a purpose right and
there's a character who's who the other characters in the sketch compliment
them and this is something we were talking talking about before we went live
here everyone in that sketch serves a purpose and it's not just they're just
there to fill space and and let this main character be weird.
We talked about Herb Welch.
Track 4
[23:06] We know this is about Herb Welch, but every character from the anchor at the
studio to the people he's interviewing, they all compliment him,
and they serve a purpose to show something,
a characteristic about that person, if that makes sense. I don't know if I'm
describing that accurately.
Yeah, no, it's almost where, Where even if a character on screen is nonsensical,
it has to be grounded in something.
Correct. That's what I want to say, grounded. Yeah, it has to be grounded in something.
And the people that you mentioned, like the supporting characters,
serve as the characters who maybe ground whatever's happening.
Yes. Either to highlight the absurdity or whatever. But you're right.
Good sketch writing, I think, nothing should be throwaway.
Track 4
[23:55] And I think that's, was that something like that you, what we're getting at
too is just, you know, like you said, like the grounding aspect,
but also like no, like an economy of words in a way.
Like you have to use the three minutes that you have like wisely and efficiently.
Yes. And I like when things are succinct and to the point versus drawn out and we don't get it.
Or I like what you said about throw away. way.
Sometimes, a lot of times, I should say, sketches don't need those extra lines
that you think they need, right, to justify.
You know, a character doesn't have to say, hi, mom and dad.
We should be able to know that just based on, we need to start in the middle of that.
Or of like, well, thanks for coming to my wine and cheese night.
We're going to do X, Y, Z. It's just start in the middle of the scene.
We get, like, we see the wine, we see the cheese, you know what I mean?
I mean, it doesn't have to be about the wine and cheese.
That's, you know, just a random situation, just an example.
I don't know. And I just – my favorite thing about Mulaney is that he's kind of bold, too.
I don't think a lot of people would be making the same jokes that he was making. I don't know.
That's also to say I don't think he would make the same jokes as he did 10,
12, 13, 14 years ago either.
Track 4
[25:21] Times have changed. But, you know, I think he did a good job of,
I don't know, I like sometimes fearless comedy.
And I'm not saying that as an excuse to be a jerk, right? Right, there's a difference.
Yeah, there's a difference. You should never be a jerk and, you know,
make cheap shots and, you know, make marginalized people the butt of the joke.
That's not what I'm saying at all. But, you know, don't be so afraid to talk
about the things that are just real life and are real to those groups or, you know what I mean?
Track 4
[25:55] Yeah. Yeah, and I think we saw a lot of that show up, of course,
and the thing that sticks out to me and you and probably every SNL fan with
Mulaney is a lot of those things that you just mentioned showed up in Stefan,
which Mulaney wrote with Bill Hader.
And that was the best thing, I think, that almost pretty much anybody has ever done on SNL.
This is one of my personal favorite things ever on SNL. yeah and
i think with stefan melanie's very
good at what you just mentioned victoria's showing
on her notebook she has a stefan sticker so
obviously a fan of stefan but
i think melanie's good at referencing things that seem very specific but
are oddly relatable in stefan he's very good about not punching
down at marginalized people but still making jokes involving marginalized
people in a lot of ways so talk about victoria like
talk about stefan just in general like what do you want want to say about this
awesome piece of art and something i
failed to mention again i did not do
a good job of explaining why i find in a sketch but
specificity specificity is that a word that's very much a word and you did a
good job there you go thank you english is my second language as i like to joke
um no but he has specifics that make it incredibly weird and and stefan right um.
Track 4
[27:17] Um, you know, I don't, I can, I don't know that I can describe some of the things,
you know, Stefan would say, again, I don't think we'd be making the same jokes today,
which is fair and fine and understandable, but you know, I don't want to say
the word, but he was talking about real life suitcases where they wear,
where they wear people, but he used the M word.
Yes. And like, I think it was like
layering clothes on and putting on rollerblades. And you know what I mean?
Just like how stupid, you know, that's just like a stupid, funny joke.
Um, yeah, that imagery.
Yeah. The, the imagery of it is fun. And I love the game between Stefan and Seth of.
Track 4
[28:02] No, we're looking for suggestions for, you know, a Midwestern family or anybody who's not you.
I got it already. Okay. New York's hottest club is Bush.
This club has everything. Ghosts. Good. Banjos. Carl Palladino.
A stuck-up kitten who won't sign autographs.
Furcles. Oh, do I want to know? Yes, you do. So furcles are? Fat urcles. Right.
Of course they are. Sure. Sure they are.
And after you've been with one of those guys, you'll ask yourself, did I do that?
Track 4
[28:47] Stefan. Just these like weird, random, yet very specific things that don't necessarily
fit together that are under the same roof at whatever club is.
It was just, yeah, it was a nice blend of weird but specific.
And, you know, I think it worked for Stefan.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. One of my favorite jokes that he did is Stefan.
The cast is a special guest. Have you heard of Blackula, the black Dracula? Yes.
Well, they have a Jewish Dracula. Oh, what's his name? Sidney Applebaum.
Track 4
[29:33] Sidney Applebaum. Jewish. Jewish Dracula.
Sidney. It's that misdirection, that funny misdirection. I could totally tell
Mulaney was sitting there like, I gotta do some sort of misdirection jokes.
You think he's obviously going to do a play, like blackula is
a play on black dracula he says jewish dracula there's
gonna be a play on that but it's just a jewish name and
that's totally mulaney's sense of humor and i
appreciate that and also the game of i i uh i
don't know if you and i've ever talked about breaking before in in
sketches first of all okay so how do you feel just
in general like about breaking i think there's a time and place you know if
you're just breaking right off the bat it's not not funny if you're doing it
excessively it's not funny it just depends and maybe like for example debbie
downer what worked for that sketch was that everyone was breaking constantly,
but that was like a joint yeah this is funny and ridiculous and we're you know
the fact they couldn't get through it was funny to us but if it's a single person
who's just breaking and it doesn't seem genuine.
Track 4
[30:51] They kind of ruined it. Yeah. Yeah. I think with Stefan, to me,
it did seem genuine. As the audience, we started kind of knowing the game that
Mulaney was playing with Bill Hader in there.
So Mulaney would change the cue cards.
He would change the punchlines to some of the jokes.
And so when Bill, as Stefan, was reading the joke, that could have been the
first time that he was reading that specific punchline.
Even though they did it in dress i think between dress and air milani would
he would have punch lines like multiple versions of a
punch line of a joke so he would just switch out punch lines
between dress and air so that'd be the first time that we saw bill reading that
joke so i think in breaking in that case yes it's funny there's like a funny
game it's part of this bit or whatever and it's something that with debbie downer
i think the first time they did it was natural and that's That's why it was a classic.
And then they tried to recreate it and it wasn't the same.
And they found the magic with Stefan being able to recreate the game of breaking.
And I don't know how they did it. They weren't able to recreate it.
And Debbie Downer, Lisa from Temecula recently, I don't think they've been able to recreate that.
But with Stefan, millennium hater managed to recreate breaking and make it seem authentic every time.
Like, I wonder why that is, Victoria, what's the difference?
Track 4
[32:17] Well, it's probably because every single thing Stefan says is he's a firecracker.
You don't know what he's going to say, and he doesn't know what he's going to say.
And I think why that's getting a laugh is that those folks in studio are also seeing that.
They're seeing the switch or whatever. But I think it works for them because.
Track 4
[32:39] The nature of Stefan is so out there and wild and weird that he's not a relatable character.
He's not saying the run-of-the-mill things of, oh, my favorite breakfast is pancakes with bacon.
He's saying some very weird things.
And to say them in person, out loud, in front of an audience is kind of,
you know, like, what am I saying? I do that too sometimes.
His favorite breakfast would be like uppers and regret. Or something like that. I don't know.
Yeah. And I mean, I've gotten my breaking under control. But I've broken on stage.
Yeah. And it's just funny because I'm, and to me, what's making it funny is
we've been rehearsing this.
And we've got the joke. And, you know, we've, whatever.
But now we're sharing this with other people who are not comedians.
Track 4
[33:37] And we don't know how they're going to react to what we know is ridiculous and
I'm going to say it and hope for the best.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Part of the breaking is that we're now saying this
in front of people who we don't know.
We don't know what they're going to say, how they're going to react to it essentially.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really neat perspective on breaking, I guess from a performer's side of it.
I think, yeah, just as long as it doesn't feel forced or – Yes,
I think that's what I – you're better at words today than I am,
but that's what I meant of when you're solo or you start breaking off the bat or whatever it is.
If it just doesn't seem genuine, if you're not actually laughing,
you're just doing it to deflect or try to make this funnier or trying to be funny by breaking –.
Track 4
[34:27] I don't think it works. I think people will notice that. And if you're genuinely
breaking, people will laugh with you and not at you.
Yeah, essentially, Mulaney's a magician when it comes to this because he was
able to make it seem authentic and part of the game and everything like that with Stefan.
So Stefan, by the way, on the Saturday Night Network's character countdown,
I believe he was number one. I was on that episode.
Yeah, he was number one. Do you agree with Stefan? Like, could you see him being
number one in a character countdown?
It's 49 years of history, I know. But what do you think of that?
I'm trying to think of, well, okay, hold on. I was going to say,
who else would be number one?
But I really love some of Kristen Wiig's characters, too. But Stefan being number
one is a fair assessment.
That kind of makes sense, right? Yeah. Because there are no diminishing returns, too.
So I think that's another thing about good sketch writing. writing
is if you keep writing the same
for the same character and how are the returns
on it with Stefan I don't think Victoria there was diminishing returns
on Stefan it might have gotten better honestly so that as a sketch writer and
somebody who appreciates sketch like how that that's such a sometimes a rare
thing not to see diminishing returns for a recurring character no that's completely
accurate it's a fair assessment I was like unless you're doing.
Track 4
[35:52] A specific show about those same characters but
yeah no it's i think
that's one thing that stefan got the same
amount of laughs if not even more laughs every time he he
showed up yeah and that's just great writing and
great performance by bill of course bill hater yep amazing performer
but that's just like the team like millennia bill just such a wonderful team
uh so stefan on yeah we love victoria has a step on sticker on her notebook
so we we all love step on uh something that that i've always loved very relatable
thing of forgetting people's names,
uh so it's presented in a fun way by millennia so millennia's behind the what's
that name sketches so victoria these are these get me every time i think he
did three of them But all three were just fantastic.
You know, like a relatable premise. I love these. What did you think of what's that name?
Track 4
[36:50] It's interesting. So I have a very millennial slash Gen Z take on this.
So there are people that will follow me and I follow them back on Instagram.
And we have our names on Instagram.
But I won't know their real name, but I know their Instagram name. Oh, no.
And, for example, this literally happened last night where there's this person
who's – I've met them in person, and we follow each other on Instagram,
but I forgot their real name. Is it me?
Did you forget my name? Tim.
Track 4
[37:31] No his name is thomas everybody his name is thomas it
says it in the top top left corner
here um no but there's a person that i
ran into and i forgot his real name
and i was about to call him his
instagram handle but i think it's
just again it's a very funny premise i think
that's a great take on how to present this versus doing
a real life like relationship sketch
if that makes sense yeah you know i love that they put
it in game format and not just hey we're at a hot dog stand and i don't know
your name and what kind of game can we play within the sketch i love that the
format of it is a game show yeah i think game show sketches get a bad rap like
people say oh oh, another game show sketch.
But I think that it's format. Like the format of a game show is ripe to present
jokes, to present situations.
Track 4
[38:28] I think it just gets a bad rap. But to me, it being a game show sketch in and
of itself, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's just about execution.
Just like with any of this stuff, it's about the execution. I agree with you
that it was a good idea to make this a game show.
And, of course, Bill Hader, like arguably one of the best game show hosts in SNL history.
You can make him a game show host with anything. Yeah. Knock it out of the park.
I know your whole family. Your son Avi loves Outer Space. What's my name?
Track 4
[39:01] Carl? Audience, what's that name? Norman.
Norman the doorman. Oh, I'm so sorry.
Say hi to the wife for me. I'm sorry, what's that? that, say hi to my wife.
Yeah, OK, I'll take the bus out to Forest Hills Cemetery and tell her that you say hello.
Track 4
[39:24] God, what the hell kind of show is this? It's What's That Name?
The interactions between Hader and the contestants, he was like,
Bill Hader was antagonistic.
He's like the sadistic game show host. He was like, I know you forget names,
and I'm doing this on purpose to put you in this position.
So uh yeah the the first one
they did was uh season 36 episode 9
uh it was mulaney he he co-wrote these
with uh simon rich who he collaborated collaborated with a lot and merica sawyer
so there's like his writing partners a lot of the time on the show and he collaborated
with them on what's that name it was like paul rudd vanessa bear keenan comes
out as uh the doorman and paul rudd's trying to remember the name it's norman the doorman like Like,
how easy is it to remember that name?
So these are just, like, lovely, lovely sketches.
He did it, too, when he came back to host as well.
Track 4
[40:23] Yeah, I thought that was very funny. Keena was like, I know your son,
and he loves outer space. What's my name?
And, yeah, it was very, very funny. I love that one and the one with Mulaney
and Cecily, that the women were, you know, executives in part.
Like, you know, they were high-ranking in their workplaces, so shout-out to
that, and not just making them stay-at-home moms or whatever it is.
Mulaney and Simon Rich and Marika Sawyer lifting up women.
Yes. In the What's That Name sketch. Bonus points.
Yeah. For the SNL Hall of Fame if you lift up women.
Yeah. You have to.
In this economy, you have to. In this economy, that's just, yeah.
Bonus points for the SNL Hall of Fame candidacy. So What's That Name?
I know just a fan favorite that Mulaney was behind along with Marika Sawyer and Simon Rich.
Track 4
[41:22] Something that's very Mulaney specific to me it's a funny observation about
Lifetime movies and Mulaney's done this in his stand up not specifically about
Lifetime movies but he's talked about what like Law and Order,
and made funny observations about that recently at the Academy Awards he had
a whole thing about Field of Dreams that was great.
Shout out Field of Dreams what a good movie what a good movie.
It's a little absurd though in a lot of ways that Mulaney I mean,
yeah, he did that for, um, what's funny is that Field of Dreams and the Fugitive,
which he, which he described.
Oh, I forgot what standup special it was. Like.
Two movies my family loved watching together growing up, and he described them so ridiculous.
It was funny. Ridiculous but accurate, but it was very funny.
Yeah, in a loving way. He's so good about taking just the grinding at the heart
of what makes something its essence, the essence of what makes something silly
and ridiculous, and really highlighting that stuff.
So he did a sketch in season 37. He wrote a sketch called What's Wrong with Tanya.
Okay, let's go over the rules. a lifetime movie Tanya will walk out and you'll
have 15 seconds to guess what's wrong with her. There's nothing wrong with her!
Yes, yes there is.
Let's bring out our first Tanya.
Track 4
[42:49] All right, mothers, what is wrong with Tanya?
Tanya! Tanya! Tanya! Oh my God, look at me! Tanya! Tanya! Tanya!
Mary Jo Beth Jojo! Tanya! You've been going to those parties where girls do
oral sex for bracelets! That's right!
Track 4
[43:08] That's right! Of course, Bill Hader again, playing a villainous kind of host.
It was a very specific observation about Lifetime movies, Victoria.
And I don't know if you've watched a lot of Lifetime movies,
but this was painfully accurate i was gonna ask you if you've watched any and
if you go back to this they have the old logo.
Track 4
[43:29] Which is just incredible like that logo
brought up a lot of memories from being a young girl
watching lifetime i feel like i was home growing up like being home sick and
when the price is right was done i'd be flipping channels and maybe something
ridiculous on lifetime would be on and And he would kind of suck me in for like
15 to 20 minutes. But I know the beats.
So I know the beats of those movies.
I know that what was portrayed in the What's Wrong with Tanya sketch is completely
accurate. He got the archetypes just right.
Yes. Yeah, I love the contestants all being the same thing. Yeah.
Just like what, the nosy neighbor kind of?
Yeah, and they all kind of look like Martha Stewart. Stewart.
You're right. I didn't pick up on that. Yeah, they were just,
it was the same person in different font.
Like, each contestant, like, they were all blonde, they were all wearing the
same shades of pink and cream, same personality.
It was, and I'm like, yeah, that's, those are the people watching Lifetime. And maybe even...
Even some of the characters in Lifetime movies. You're right.
Yeah, he also is poking fun at the viewers of these movies as well.
I can definitely see that. My favorite part is when Andy Samberg comes out.
Track 4
[44:49] But it can happen to a boy. So you thought. All right, mothers,
what's wrong with boy Tanya?
Tanya. Oh, no. Boy Tanya. What's wrong with boy Tanya? Boy Tanya.
Boy Tanya. Boy Tanya. Major William. Tanya, you're a secret stripper. No.
Tanya you're pregnant what no come on tanya your english teacher caught you
cheating so he made you take naked pictures and now they're online and it's
giving you an eating disorder and also you can't read.
Track 4
[45:25] I don't know calling him boy tanya is just
such like a mulaney like chef's kiss kind of touch to
me and guessing that he's pregnant like yeah
and then bill hater's like what no and then they just
gotta move on yeah and like said
what was it what was ended up happening with him something
about seeing something that left him with an eating
disorder or something yeah he had an eating disorder and something yeah i'll
yeah i'll go i'll go play back but i'll go play back for sure yeah but that
was just such such great beats in this though the winning contestant does the
the lightning round while the other two contestants watch while pretending to rake leaves.
That's like such a specific observation that, that he threw into this.
It's so perfect. It's so, I'm going to say this a lot.
It's so Mulaney. This whole thing. I love at the end, um, he grabs her.
She's like, you're hurting me. Who's going to believe you?
Yeah. You're not, you're not going anywhere. You'll never leave me.
And those are classic lifetime movie. Yeah.
Track 4
[46:27] Lines yeah mulaney again so good
about mining for the specificity in
something and really highlighting it and
the absurdity that comes with it that's like that's
why i love mulaney truth be told he's my
favorite working comedian right now like stand-up wise
because of these little things because of
the way he structures things and observes things and and
presents thing so he Mulaney is my favorite
stand-up comedian right now he has the championship belt
for me wow I don't
know if that's that's a that's a big claim it's a
big claim I know I stand by it you stand
up by it no oh geez something
else that I stand by this
happened happened actually uh when he was
hosting but it was such a millennia thing one
of the one of my favorite sketches of the past
few years and i don't know i haven't really talked to a ton of people about
this one um and i think you said you watched it it's the monkey judge one yes
from season 47 i think that this is like to me this almost structurally is like
a perfect sketch Your Honor,
it is obvious that you're favoring the defense. That is ridiculous.
Your Honor, I love Judge.
Track 4
[47:53] I love you. I love Judge.
You are baby. Judge, love baby. Bring Judge, baby. Judge, love you. Judge, favor defense.
Oh, come on. Yeah, we move to request a new judge.
Are you suggesting that I'm not competent? confident tango made these pieces
match sure it was a bit of trial and error but i did it i won the juice.
Track 4
[48:23] You don't have to think it's like a perfect sketch but what did you what were
your impressions of it well one i want someone to love me as much as you love
john mulaney my goodness no that was a very very funny sketch.
And I think, again, something we've been saying and will continue to say about
John Mulaney are, it's this attention to detail and picking up on everyday things and those,
little details of the everyday things and bringing them up and presenting them to us, right?
Oh, yeah. A lot of it's like, oh, yeah, I never thought about that.
It's a lot of what I think when I watch and listen to his stuff.
It's like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what they do.
You know, talking about how, you know, in this sketch, oh, he's smiling.
No, he's just like showing his teeth to assert dominance.
Like those specific details or, you know, blue shape, blah, blah, blah.
Track 4
[49:24] Just pointing out those specific things is what works for him.
And it's very smart, right? Yeah.
He's able to describe those things that I wouldn't be able to describe.
Yeah. A lot of people wouldn't. And he has a great way of, again,
pulling the very minute and blowing it up to make it funny.
And I think that's what worked in this sketch. And it was about monkeys, right?
We all have seen monkeys. monkeys but he but he was
able to one personify that that monkey
and also you know put in
front of us how monkeys act and what that would
look like in a in a courtroom essentially yeah it's
almost like i had when i was done watching the sketch i had just
finished watching like a documentary on monkeys because i felt like
i learned so much but it was also very
funny just funny acute observations like when he
was when melissa via senor she played the character that that
got injured by uh by somebody's pet
monkey and she was talking
about they asked her the question like what kind of hat were you
wearing and she's like i usually wear a bucket hat but i was wearing a different
hat and then as the monkey judge he's like so let me get this straight you approach
this person as a completely different shape and you expect or you approach this
monkey as a completely different shape and you expected him to be just be cool
about that like yeah like No, that's so funny.
Track 4
[50:49] So was this a new hat? Well, I usually wear an orange bucket hat,
but I was wearing a green baseball cap.
Track 4
[50:56] Yeah. Which is, you know. You thought the monkey would just be cool with this?
You were completely different. Yeah.
Track 4
[51:02] That's fair. He gets mad at Keenan. He's like, I will now throw sand at you to show dominance.
And he like tossed sand at him. like this yeah it was just so
again very mulaney to have like
the behavioral traits of a monkey but present
them as very human in a
courtroom setting i don't know i was like blown
away by this sketch when i saw it i thought it was so smart
and i thought the structure was great shout out simon rich and please don't
destroy who also were helped with this but this is a recent recent sketch it
was from season 40 it was two seasons ago season 47 yeah i'm just like i was
just like really honestly blown away by like the writing of this sketch,
so what else would you like to bring up victoria i've already i expressed my
love for monkey judge so i think i'd like kind of tap out on that and spare
everybody my complete like maybe we'll do a bonus one an hour and a half episode
of me just breaking down monkey judge but is there anything else from melanie that you want to bring up,
I feel like we're going to have to bring up one of the musicals,
either Diner Lobster or Bodega Bathroom. I think that's kind of essential.
Which one? Okay, which one's your favorite out of the musicals?
And we'll talk about that one.
Bodega Bathroom. Hey man, do you have a bathroom?
Track 4
[52:24] A what? A bathroom, like a bathroom
I could use? Dude, did you just ask to use a bathroom in a bodega?
I mean, what? Who cares? It's an emergency.
Would you like the key to the bathroom? Charlie, yo, if you do this,
I don't think we can be friends anymore, man.
Dude, relax. It's just a bathroom. I'm sure it's fine. It's a cinder block, bro.
And so it shall be. Oh, Bodega Cat! Show this man to the bathroom.
I never watched Les Mis, so... Me neither.
Really? Really? Yeah, I'm not really. We had to kind of read it,
I think, in high school. Was it Les Mis? Yeah.
Yeah. But I never, I don't really remember it. But I felt like I remembered it.
Like, it still felt familiar, them doing Les Mis in this sketch.
I'm going to tell you how uncultured I am right now, Thomas.
I don't even really know what Les Mis is about. Something about French.
French war. A French something happened.
You don't have to sell me on you being uncultured, Victoria.
I already know. So it's fine.
So Thomas, I like your humor because it's nonchalant and you don't need to try hard.
Like you just slip it in and it's part of your everyday like speech.
And I don't know if you've intended it this way, but I'm taking that as a compliment.
It is. It is a compliment.
Track 4
[53:51] Thank you, Victoria. Because you don't shift your tone. You just say it as you would anything else.
That's the Mulaney you think about me. I don't know. Yeah. I just have to think
twice. I'm like, did he? No, this is a joke. Yeah.
Which makes it funnier. No, we can talk about Bodega Bathroom.
Yeah. Yeah. So remind us what the beats, kind of the beats of Bodega Bathroom.
So one, I want to shout out that I don't see Pete Davidson as a musical type guy.
I can't see him, you know, watching Anything Goes, Kinky Boots, Wicked.
I can't see him watching those things. But I don't know him.
I don't know him personally.
I've only met him once for a solid second and a half on his 21st birthday, I should tell you.
And his 21st birthday was nine years ago. So I do not know Pete Davidson.
I just know what the media has told me. And they're not telling me much here.
Nonetheless, I love that he's in, he's the center.
Track 4
[54:58] Both of these pieces, the diner lobster and bodega bathroom, is just a weird fit.
But essentially, Pete Davidson asked the bodega owner to use the bathroom,
which then sets off a musical chain of events, revealing a secret.
As all these musical sketches do, he did five in a row.
From seasons 43 to 47, he hosted five times, and this was like a staple of these episodes.
Episodes so uh so yeah bodega bathroom colin
jost and gary richardson it's
worth a close oh that was a colin jost yeah colin
well wow one of the stories about these musicals is
that mulaney and jost when they were both on
the writing staff they tried to get diner lobster
on in like 2010 or something
like a long time ago and they could just.
Track 4
[55:50] Never get it on for whatever reason i think mulaney maybe said that
it didn't play well uh at the pitch meeting
or whatever so it never got past that level
uh but when mulaney hosted he
and jost were like yeah we got to get this on let's try to
get diner lobster let's do it so that's what that's like
the genesis of these musical sketches was them trying to
get diner lobster on when they were writers and it
didn't happen so yeah so jost is
definitely like huge part of these as well i
was gonna say i did not know that yeah that's a
good surprise you he's not he's not just
a pretty punchable face oh yeah well
he dubbed himself that so he did his words not mine
that's on him yeah um no i
i didn't know that that was i just thought i
thought john mulaney loved musicals i
think he does i think he has the spirit of a
theater kid does that make sense yes like
he was very even in his stand-up he's very he speaks to the back of the audience
he's very dramatic in his presentation and it's very theatrical yes so this
doesn't surprise me that he would want to do theater musical based based sketches.
I also, so I'm not a huge musical girly myself. Like I love some musicals.
I did musicals in high school.
Track 4
[57:16] Or was at least part of them. But I do try to put musicals on stage.
Track 4
[57:24] I try to do musical style stuff. I don't know. We'll talk about that later another day. But yeah.
Yeah. Harnessing your John Mulaney energy with that.
I'm consistently harnessing the John Mulaney energy. That's good energy to be harnessed.
This is like a celebration. This is a loose kind of episode,
I suppose, because it fits john mulaney it's very uh
just a very celebratory i like
i feel when i did that when i went and did research and not
research when i reached rewatch stuff for this it
just always it just put me in a good mood it put me in like a great
headspace because just mulaney has that
ability he has that touch and that's why
you know we we've gone through herb welch coach stefan what's that name some
of the one-off stuff like like monkey judge the great great monkey judge uh
what's wrong with tanya mentioned his musicals like that's a quite the hall of fame.
Track 4
[58:24] Resume wouldn't you say victoria like if you
were a writer on snl would you not be proud to have all of
that on your resume absolutely i think there's
also a component here in that this boy
got range like he has it's a
variety of stuff you know stefan is a
standalone character that they've done some they've put
him in a sketch or two but then he was a stand-up you
know a recurring character you know uh game
shows musicals and
then of course your your average sketches that
you're putting on here on on the on the show
i think it speaks to the variety
that he brings even though it's a
Mulaney style sketch and you can tell when
he's you know had a part in it he still brings some
a few different things to the table and I
think that's really impressive and I qualifies him for the hall
of fame and not only that you know people
love John Mulaney even if they're not watching SNL they're
watching his stand-up or they know about him or
they know that he's had an impact on SNL through his writing and they can tell
you anyone can tell you hey John Mulaney did this they're very aware too he's
a likable person and I know he you know says likability is a jail but I think.
Track 4
[59:47] Just calling it out. He's been through a few things in the last couple years.
And I commend him for getting back up on his feet.
And I don't know his journey well enough to judge and I'm not going to I would
never I would never be able to judge a situation like that.
But I think he's done an excellent job of reclaiming himself and his comedy
and kind of reintroducing himself to the world as, hey, I'm not this perfect,
you know, button up guy, I do have some flaws.
And I think he shows that in Baby J. But even in Baby J., though it was different
from his past work, was still funny and still called out those details and the
specifics and, you know, the mundane things.
And he was able to do it in his own way.
And people, I think, just appreciate that about him.
And there's no, he really is the comeback kid, is what I'll say.
And I think his his work speaks for itself.
Even if you didn't know his name, you know, his sketches, you know,
everyone knows who Stefan is. Stefan is a beloved.
I think Stefan in and of itself qualifies him for, for the hall of fame.
Track 2
[1:01:12] So there's that. Victoria, Thomas, you really brought it. You left it all out there.
And I got to say, I'm going to be shocked if Mulaney doesn't make it into the hall one way or another.
He's going to be on the ballot in two categories this time, which is unprecedented here in the hall.
Now, I want to circle back on something Victoria talked about right toward the
end when she mentioned Stefan. And we are going to listen to a Stefan sketch now.
This is Trademark, Hater, and Mulaney.
They play off each other and feed one another so well.
And Stefan, like Victoria mentioned, is beloved at this point.
He's probably a top 10 maybe even top 5 character I forget what the SNN came
up with when they did characters but he's got to be right up there,
so let me not dilly dally any further and let's get to Stefan on Weekend Update.
Track 5
[1:02:26] It's Christmas time in New York which means millions of tourists will be coming
to see what holiday magic the Big Apple has to offer.
Here with some tips on where you and your children should go is our city correspondent, Stefan.
Hi. Hi. Hi, Stefan. It's an exciting time, isn't it? I know,
right? So many Republican candidates. Who do you pick?
Okay, so, Stefan, a lot of families are making their way to Manhattan to have
some holiday fun. Are there any places you can recommend?
Yes, yes, yes, yes. If you're looking to get festive with your family,
I've got the perfect place for you. New York's hottest club is Hay.
Built from the bucket list of a dying pervert, This Battery Park Bitch Parade
is now managed by overweight game show host Fat Sajak.
And this place has everything. Tweakers, skeevy's, spud web, a child.
And a Russian guy who runs on the treadmill in a Cosby sweater.
So come on down this weekend. The bouncer is a bulldog who looks like Wilford
Brimley. And the password is diabetes.
Track 5
[1:03:53] Stefan, that sounds like a very cool place, and I'm sure that,
yeah, I'm sure that people exist who would enjoy hanging out at a place like
that, but since New York has so many holiday, holiday,
holiday sites to see, maybe you can think of something more traditional for
ordinary salt of the earth people to check out. Yes, loud and clear.
If you're ordinary or love salt, I've got just the spot for you.
New York's hottest holiday club is Baaaaaah!
Could you, uh, could you use that in a sentence for me? In a sentence?
Let's go to Because the line is too long at Okay,
that was a sentence, thank you Open and condemned in 1904 The seasonal psych
award is the creation of Hanukkah cartoon character Menorah the Explorer.
Track 5
[1:04:56] And this place has everything Kiwis, Spud Webb.
The Spud Webb, he's doing double duty. Yeah. Cleo Awards, some guy's mom.
Plus a special showing of the African holiday classic, A Fish Called Kwanzaa.
Track 5
[1:05:24] Look who just walked in. It's a lady who works at CVS, but do not bother her, because she is on break.
I don't know if this place captures, captures the holiday spirit.
But all the proceeds go to charity. Oh, which charity?
Flacid Outreach Group, Doctors Without Boners.
Oh, Stefan, I'm, I would never disparage a charity, and I'm sure that Doctors
Without Boners does amazing work. Not really.
No, not really, okay. Okay, but this is not what I was looking for.
I'm trying my best. All right.
You're right, I shouldn't get
mad at you. I just get emotional around the holidays to find, you know.
My family is all back in New Hampshire and I don't get to spend the holidays with them anymore.
I guess I just miss them this time of year. I'm sorry, I never knew you had a family.
I just thought you were built by gay scientists.
Track 5
[1:06:29] You know what? This year I'm gonna get you a Christmas present.
Oh, Stefan, wow, what are you gonna get me? A human boombox.
What's a human boombox? It's that thing of when you carry a over your shoulder
while he sings gangster rap.
That's just what I've always wanted. Happy holidays, Seth Meyers.
Track 2
[1:06:56] I forgot how much I love Bill Hader working with Mulaney.
Stefan is a masterwork in sketch comedy and the games that they play with one
another. So there's that.
Victoria, Franco, I want to thank you so much for joining us this week.
It's been an absolute pleasure. pleasure on behalf
of uh thomas and matt we
thank you so much for making the case for
melanie as a writer in the snl hall of fame next week on the snl hall of fame
podcast we will be joined by rebecca north to discuss my rudolph as she takes
one last kick at the old nomination can that's That's right,
this is her last year to be considered for the SNL Hall of Fame,
or she will be removed from the ballot,
whether she likes it or not.
Track 2
[1:08:04] So, that's what I've got for you this week. I hope you are doing well.
We really appreciate you stopping by.
But if you do me a favor on the way out, as you pass the weekend update exhibit,
Turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.
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