Episode 1325: for KING + COUNTRY’s Joel Smallbone on ‘Drummer Boy,’ Plus Dr. Derwin Gray on Healing

Joel Smallbone of for KING + COUNTRY joins us as his Christmas musical 'Drummer Boy' heads to theaters. We talk about the eight years it took to get it made, why the best musicals don't sing the whole time and an offer to musical haters that we have never heard an artist make before.

Then pastor and former NFL defensive back Dr. Derwin Gray gets honest about his new book, 'It's Time to Heal,' which sits right where faith and therapy meet. We talk about why depression isn't a sign you've sinned, why so many Christians spend years circling the same wound and the question from his son that helped him face his own childhood trauma.

Jesse is back from jury duty, which he was promised would be over by lunch. It was not, and he ended up on a murder trial. 

In Slices, Jesse brings a new Pew study that finds a surprising faith gap between college-age people and young adults just a few years older. Derek makes the case for Kirk Franklin's new album 'I Am What I Am,' and we hear about the Thanksgiving guest Kirk still hasn't gotten over. And Marty wants to know why the whole world keeps searching the Bible app for the same Psalm.

Then Marty's Life Hacks closes it out, and the hacks are starting to look a lot like signing up for things. 

Highlights: 

01:07 — Jesse's back from jury duty (he thought he'd be out by lunch and got put on a murder trial) 

10:08 — RELEVANT Recommends: Joel Smallbone of for KING + COUNTRY on his eight-year road to 'Drummer Boy' 

12:46 — How 2020 turned 'Drummer Boy' into 'Unsung Hero' 

15:44 — Joel's offer to anyone who hates musicals 

16:06 — Derek and Jesse already have a plan for Joel's offer 

17:35 — Slices: Pew finds 18-to-22-year-olds out-churching the rest of America 

22:15 — Derek on Kirk Franklin's new album 'I Am What I Am' 

26:57 — The Thanksgiving Kanye ate Kirk Franklin's leftovers 

31:51 — Jesse's spirit tunnel strategy

32:24 — Marty on the most searched term in the Bible app 

38:40 — Dr. Derwin Gray on 'It's Time to Heal' and where faith and therapy meet 

40:27 — When mourning stops being a season 

42:03 — "Christ's behavioral therapy" 

44:03 — "Depression is not a sign that you've sinned" 

45:30 — Derwin's question for the "just pray it away" crowd 

46:21 — Trauma isn't just something that happened to you 

49:36 — Marty's Life Hack

56:06 — Is Joel's offer legally binding?