Episode 11 – Pilgrimage, Transformation, and Coming to See the Unseen Realm with Brian Zahnd

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding, by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!

I’ll admit it—I was a bit nervous to talk about heaven with Brian Zahnd. Perhaps like you, I carry baggage from childhood images of gold streets and clouds, and I wasn’t sure where this conversation would go. But his stories of walking long long-distance pilgrimages like the Camino de Santiago opened such a grounded way of talking about heaven, embodiment, and the unseen world we move through every day. I really loved this conversation!

What we get into

Brian has walked multiple pilgrimages—40 miles, 160 miles, and the full 500-mile Camino de Santiago twice. Those long walks have shaped his sense of identity and the stripping-away that happens when life is reduced to walking, eating, sleeping, and repeat.

Brain shares the adventures of crossing the Pyrenees, staying in the monastery at Roncesvalles, and watching people who don’t consider themselves religious still feel drawn into the shared rituals of the Camino. He noted that at some point, his perspective shifted from finally getting a vacation to an overhaul of vocation.

“Eventually it doesn’t feel like a holiday. It feels like, I am a pilgrim now. My life has been reduced to blessed simplicity.”

We also explore his new book Unseen Existences: Of Heaven, Earth, and the Divine Mystery in All Things and why so many of us inherited narrow or sentimental ideas of heaven. Brian talks about heaven in a way that isn’t wispy and frail, but grounded and gritty.

Why this conversation matters

If you’ve ever felt allergic to heaven-talk, this episode might be a relief. Brian challenges the modern assumption that only what we can measure is real, without dismissing science or reason. Instead, he invites us to recover an older Christian intuition: that the visible and invisible co-exist, and that our own lived experience—our senses, our movement, our curiosity—can help us glimpse the mysterious existence of heaven all around us.

What made me laugh

Two pastors walked together for days before admitting they were pastors—only on the Camino!

Tune in if you enjoy conversations about:

• the Camino de Santiago
• embodied spirituality
• heaven without sentimentality
• the unseen world in Christian (mystic) imagination
• pilgrimage and spiritual transformation
• Buen Camino!

Where to Find Brian

• Website: https://brianzahnd.com
• Substack: https://brianzahnd.substack.com
• Twitter / X: https://twitter.com/BrianZahnd
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brianzahnd
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BrianZahndAuthor (facebook.com in Bing)
• YouTube (Word of Life Church): https://www.youtube.com/c/WordofLifeChurch

Where to Find Deb

• Flourish Spiritual Direction
• Substack
• IG or Facebook

Thanks to InterVarsity Press for generously offering 25% off Spiritual Wayfinding: 33 Walking Meditations for Navigating Life with Embodied Wisdom. Use Code IVPOD25 at https://www.ivpress.com/spiritual-wayfinding

Music:

Palms Down by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue)

Faded Promises licensed through Soundstripe. Code: LUJWGE5LY2FBKNAT

Closing Music: ⁠Roots by Ryvoli⁠